Work In Progress
This is a work in progress. Please send me any information or links that should be included. This will be moved to a better space when it's ready.
- CMDR Surly Badger
I'm a grumpy old fart; not the leader type. I chose the title "Rats" because my mental image is something like a bunch of scruffy squabbling warf-critters who might swarm out to board a weakened ship - mostly to help but also perhaps to relieve them of excess weight in the form of valuables. "Vent that palladium and you'll be able to jump farther (nudge) (nudge)" I wouldn't want to be at the top of a hierarchy like that because your tail gets chewed a lot.
But: thank you for the idea.
This thing is going to evolve (I hope) and I'm concerned that it may become unwieldy (if it does, it'll evolve more) My original vision was that someone would friend all the rats and we'd go find them. But that's a lot of friend requests (Thanks CMDRs for your amazing ratlike squeals of support. I salute in your general direction. You bring a tear to my beady little remaining eye!)
I think a couple things:
- This is just going to become a long thread for now. If someone need fuel and posts here, we can swarm to help, or fold our arms and watch them die.Either way, it'll be entertaining. So I suppose we just keep an eye on the thread and if there's a call for help, we'll evolve our response.
- As future game-play evolves we will evolve with it. Someone needs to experiment with refuelling in 1.3 and make some official recommendations for a procedure, whether there are any "gotchas" or things we should watch for. I don't want to go 10 kylie just to blow up the person I am rescuing and I certainly don't want to end up needing rescuing myself.
- I don't want to do a set fee for rescue; I'm going to rescue people for the pleasure of rooting through their underwear drawer in their cabin when they're not looking. My opinion is that having no set fee allows for some fun role-play. Will you get cheap assistance, fast assistance, or good assistance? You won't get all three.
- We will need to evolve (via discussion in this thread) our methods and recommendations for both the rescuee ("stay with your ship. pray." I love the sign!) and Fuel Rats: how much to bring, whether to show up armed or not, etc. That will evolve as well; like proper rats we will remain nimble, selfish, and bitey.
- I am concerned that someone might conceive the idea of wasting a rat's time by summoning help to where they aren't. That's why I cooked up the 'friend' idea. I would enjoy it highly if someone summons me to help and tries to dry gulch me. If you think rats bite, try a badger. I intend to show up in at least an A-rated Clipper with fuel and plenty of missiles and beams. If it means I make a few extra jumps getting there, so be it.
I go through bursts of RL busy and often check the forums via airport internet and smartphone; if I miss something, it's no surprise and if you think I missed something I shouldn't feel free to PM me or throw a wet, chewed-up cigar at my head.
- CMDR Surly Badger
(Some respectful disagreement here; I think you're asking the right questions, I'm not sure my answers are the ones you're looking for. I am not an authority, though...)
I came up with the name "Fuel Rats" in part because of a cartoon I saw long ago, of a "desert rat" - a rat in the desert selling water. It seemed like a good visual and I picture the Fuel Rats as an anarchic collective of wildly disparate CMDRs who have their own reasons and agendas and who sometimes compete and sometimes gouge and other times are nobles. When you call on the Fuel Rats you may get an Imperial Noble in a Clipper or you may get a "used goods re-allocator" from the docks of Lave, in a T-6 held together with broken dreams and beer cans. In that sense I imagine us reflecting the overall randomness and nastiness/glory of humanity.
My ventures as a used goods reallocator and black hole mapper have been very successful so I am rolling in credit (right now) and I cannot possibly drink all my credits if I convert them to beer, so I'm doing this for fun. And for the opportunity to do a bit of role-play!
Rat: "Yo! Gotcher fuel here!" (jumps into system)
Noob in Orca: "Oh, thank goodness!!! It's amazing that you came to rescue us!"
Rat: "Not so fast. My kid's going to university on this."
Noob in Orca: "What do you mean?!"
Rat: "You wouldn't happen to have 20t of palladium bars on ya, would ya?"
Noob in Orca: "No! We're just a sightseeing cruise ship!"
Rat: "Uh oh. (thinks) Are any of your passengers really good-looking?"
Noob in Orca: "This is extortion!!! We're 10kylie from human space and you're extorting me!?"
Rat: "We call it 'encouraging good service' and 'customer relationship management' (in background: 'friendship drive... charging...'")
Noob in Orca: "WAIT! WAIT!!! Would you like to be part owner of a cruise line?!?!?"
Rat: "(cancels drive charge) Now... we are talking..."
Let's keep this simple and anarchistic and evolve if and when we need to. Students of history here may recall that during the early days of fire departments, fire-suppression was a competitive business and it was not uncommon for firemen to get in huge fights over who would put out a fire, while the fire burned. I can see a bidding war between rats while the 'customer' listens and fumes.
That would make for interesting game-play. We can't "name and shame" on the forums but if that ever happens I'm sure we'll discuss it and maybe the next person I refuel, the cost will be: "if you ever see CMDR so-and-so, attack them for me." I do my exploring in my Asp, The Longshot, but I'll do my refuelling in a combat-geared Clipper. If it means it takes me a bit longer to get there, well, the customer can wait. I want to show of my Clipper's excellent paint-job.
I'm not a fan of rules. Perhaps we should keep it simple:
The Fuel Rat's Code of Conduct:
- I have fuel
- You don't
- Any questions?
I think we can all follow those simple rules, no?
- CMDR Surly Badger
Robert Paul Wolff, in his classic "In Defense of Anarchism" lays out a position he calls 'philosophical anarchism' - a political philosophy that checkmates the legitimacy of the state by opposing it with the autonomy of the individual. Wolff's view of anarchism is not the 'anarchy' of a zombie apocalypse television series, or the fevered imaginings of Friedrich Nietzsche, it's a doctrine of self-discipline. In Wolff's anarchism, the autonomous individual asserts "I do not need to be 'led' thank you very much, I've got this." There is no need for a state, or for rules, because the autonomous individual is sensible and mature enough to realize their own self-interest, and that is peaceful co-existence and mutual support. Humans are social animals and have evolved to depend on eachother; as one of my biologist friends once said, "A solitary person is not fully human." In the universe of Elite Dangerous, this is especially the case - humanity has migrated to the stars and has created a vast far-flung web of dependencies. Even the most hard-core deep space explorer needs the dock rat that maintained their ship, the researcher who designed their frame-shift drive, the construction worker that assembled the orbital, the hydroponic farmer that grew their food. Anarchism is not the collapse of social dependencies; it's an acknowledgement that the autonomous individual is ready and worthy to participate fully in human society without needing 'encouragement' from the strong hand of a police-state.
In fact, one of the tragedies of Nietschean nihilist anarchy (Henceforth I will call it 'anarcho-nihilism') is that it inevitably devolves into a dictatorship. Many Earth societies went through dark ages that eventually coalesced around the biggest thug on the street, who was usually granted the title 'king' and their thuggish goons usually stood by ready to make up an 'aristocracy'. Philosophical anarchists look at this in horror because they realize that a nascent aristocracy is hardly going to result in liberty - it's just trading one form of oppression for another, endlessly. When a philosophical anarchist says "I am an anarchist" they are not saying "you can't give me orders!" they are saying "you don't need to give me orders!" Because the philosophical anarchist realizes that the collective they are establishing is their only protection against eventual oppression, Hobbes' war of every man against all others, or Nietzsche's chaos from which the ubermensch will claw his way to the top. To become ruler.
When I started the Fuel Rats there weren't any other Fuel Rats to talk to (picture me, sitting in a bar in Veach Hub, Atins II, talking to a circle of empty mugs of Insty-Bruu, while Mossfoot tried to decide whether to call station security) so I made decisions by myself. One of those decisions, which I hope never to regret, was to structure the Fuel Rats so that there was no hierarchy, no leadership, nothing but the bonds of cooperation and companionship. It's an idea I lifted straight from Epicurus (341–270 BC) though Epicurus eventually couldn't resist the urge to create a hierarchy ... and guess who he put at the top? As I watched the Insty-Bruu cool I formulated an idea I've floated here, before:
The Doctrine of Individual Excellence
Simply, it defines the bonds between the individual and the collective. Absent authority, and absent need(1) the best reason to do things with the good of the collective in mind is because the individual is strongest, and so is the collective, when the individual is being awesome in the name of the collective. Those of you who feel the slightest shred of pride at saying "I am a Fuel Rat" understand what I am talking about, here. By associating yourself with The Fuel Rats you're enhanced. You're cooler. You're probably even a better pilot. If you've ever wondered how it is that Kerenn is two jumps from anyplace, it's simply because Kerenn's a Fuel Rat and Fuel Rats are awesome like that. Therefore, so is Kerenn. And Kerenn's mighty deeds under the Fuel Rats' banner(2) make the entire Fuel Rats collective more awesome. To live in accord with the doctrine of individual excellence, it's simple: make yourself your best by making the collective be the best. If you think about that for a second, you'll see that the doctrine of individual excellence is diametrically opposed to the selfishness of the Nietzschean ubermensch, who has no concerns except "what's in it for me?" Under the doctrine of individual excellence, your decision-making process ought to involve awesomeness, humor, steely-eyed cool under pressure, Snickers Bars, doing your paperwork, and finding CMDRs that need fuel and firing limpets at them.
If you find yourself saying to another Fuel Rat "We're an anarchy, you're not my boss" or something to that effect, you profoundly fail to understand what it means to be part of a team, and to bask in the awesomeness of your team's accomplishments. In the Fuel Rats nobody is anyone's boss because we're all responsible individually to help the rest of the collective.
The structure of the Fuel Rats collective is designed to maximize individual autonomy while maximizing our strength to act as a collective. I am constantly awestruck by the incredible emergent team-work that the Fuel Rats show. You watch DISPATCH putting together a rescue around a CASE RED and it's not hierarchy on display: DISPATCH is coordinating because it helps, and they have accepted a tremendous responsibility with no authority - and the Fuel Rats in the rescue allow DISPATCH to coordinate the rescue because, after all, someone has to, and having a steely-eyed Fuel Rat DISPATCH talking a client through a rescue looks and sounds awesome (and is comforting, besides!) The way we're structured to allow for emergent team-work means that you don't need Surly Badger, or any other Fuel Rat to decide what's the right thing to do: that's your job. That is philosophical anarchy. It's anarchy with responsibility. Earth's ancient samurai had a saying: "Death is light as a feather, Duty is heavier than a mountain." Our self-chosen duty to fire limpets at people is why we'll fly 25,000ly to do it.
Because of misunderstandings about the word "anarchy" I have edited the 'About' section on the Fuel Rats site(3) to no longer refer to us an an 'anarchic collective.' Another reason I did this is because the in-game description of the Fuel Rats is as a 'collective' and I think that emphasizing our collective nature instead of our non-hierarchical nature is probably a good thing. We still have no leaders. We still are a collective.
If someone says, "We're a collective, you're not my boss" you can reply to them one of two ways:
"We're a collective, we're all your boss."
"We emphasize individual excellence; you are your own boss and you should be more demanding of yourself than I ever possibly could."
I salute you all,
(1 - in-game, we don't actually need anything. So how do we appeal to an individual's enlightened self-interest? We need something external to the relationship between the individual and the collective: we need the plaudits of others and our personal sense of aesthetics!)
(2 - memo to self: banner, dang it. We need a banner)
(3 - http://fuelrats.com/about-the-fuel-rats/ )
- Forum: Traveller_GG
A few idle thoughts:
Did you know a group of rats is called a mischief? How utterly appropriate
The aglie kangaroo rat's taxonomy is Dipodomys agilis. Given our willingness to jump great distances I can't help but think this would be a suitable Latinname for the group. We need shoulder patches!!
If someone posted that they were out of fuel and a nearby rat jumped to help, but it turned out to be a pirate; would this be a Rat Trap (and you've been caught)
– CMDR Surly Badger
Today, one of the Fuel Rats was attacked while attempting to deliver fuel for a rescue.
We all knew that something like this could happen. We had a bit of coordination to do back at the Rat's Nest and the CMDR who was surprised was replaced with a volunteer hostage, CMDR Domaq.
The pirates' demand was 200t of platinum. Our counter-offer was that we'd take him back if they gave us 100t of gold and 3 Snickers Bars. CMDR Domaq did his best to be an annoying rat, but eventually the pirates got as bored of us as we were of them, and opened fire on Domaq. CMDR Chance also attempted to join as a hostage but experienced instancing problems, then finally arrived in time to get shot down to 80% hull. We appreciate and applaud the actions of both the Fuel Rat who responded in good faith to what turned out to be a trap, and to CMDRs Domaq and Chance who went and stuck their noses back into the trap to demonstrate the fearless sense of humor of the Fuel Rats!
We cannot be "The Good Guys" if we take sides, assemble war-fleets, blacklist people who don't play the way we want. Their actions speak for themselves: trapping someone who came to help with a war-fleet that outnumbers them. Our actions speak for us, as well:
- We have Fuel
- You don't
- Any questions?
Any other response eventually turns us into a War-Guild, or an extortion racket - or encourages more pirates to amuse themselves by wasting their time and ours.
In other words, today's incident changes nothing. To change our behaviors at all would make us less than we are, right now. Let's not do that.
We come with fuel (and hopefully guns and shields) but we come to help not make war. If we're attacked, run away. When you're not being a Fuel Rat, behave however you like, on your own, but please - if you're responding to the Rat-Signal - rise above; we're here to help.
If you need fuel, just holler.
- CMDR Kancro Vantas
1st Potential Customer
I received this private email 7 hrs ago, while I was asleep.
Can you help me out with some fuel in a Core system? I saw you mentioned you are spending some time in the urban space.
Just upgraded to Python and made a classic mistake spending all money on cargo forgot to refuel and jumping into a system without stations. No fuel scoop but no scoopable star anyway.
And most important No money to pay the insurance :-(
It might be a problem that I tried to fly to my end destination Gliese 868 but found out I cannot reach that place. I only have a quarter of internal fuel tank left. I'm .18 LY from the start
Can you place help me? I will loose weeks of grinding for the Pyhton :-S
Replied saying that I wasnt back yet but that other rats could help and that he should come to the forum for help.
- CMDR Surly Badger
I'm 1000ly out and could get to him later tonight; I've got stuff going on today that'd keep me from reaching him. Anyone in-core?
If nobody else can do it, I can be there with Longshot late tonight.
Edit: Servers down.
Robinjb contributed this:
(He repurposed a pose, etc, from Banksy, which is highly amusing really)
- CMDR Kuif
Well as Kancro Vantas already mentioned I'm desperate for fuel in the Core system (close to Gliese 868).
It's embarrassing to say but after long grinding for the Python I upgraded yesterday and outfitted the Python for trading. Because I needed more credits to get my hold full I downgraded the FSD to a A6 to B6 and forgot to refuel the tanks and I noticed the empty fuel tank to late. Also cannot remember the "Out of fuel" warning. I do not have enough credits for insurance so basically without a refuel I'm fracked :-(
One more problem is that I tried flying to the system I was going yesterday so I'm 0.18 LY from the star from the system I jumped into and I have something like a quarter of fuel in the internal tank left.
Guess I can continue for 15/30 minutes in game. Also I was solo mode, not sure if that is a problem (was mentioned somewhere in this thread).
My CMDR name is also Kuif
- CMDR Kancro Vantas
Please state what system exactly you are?
What's the size of tank you have?
how far is the closest station you need to reach for full re-fuel? (in other words, what's the length of jump you need to safety?)
what is your time zone?
what time would you be able to log in for the operation?
- CMDR Kuif
Exact system I do not know yet (cannot get in the game right now)
Closest station is Gliese 868 which is around 8,4 LY away
Time zone (CET, Amsterdam/Paris timezone)
Time I'm not sure yet but I guess tonight at 10-11 PM CET
- CMDR Anuranium
I am standing by in Gliese 868 with a special custom build. I don't know what CET timezone is... (Central Empire Time?), I prefer to use GMT since that's what the stations and galmap usually display
- CMDR Anuranium
Made up-link with distress caller. Currently traveling at 1400C, but the object is still 0.15LY away.
Will update upon arrival.
- CMDR Anuranium
Fuel transfer complete. Mission accomplished (CORE SYS SECTOR FW-N a6-1).
Time from distress call reaching Fuel Rats upon finished rescue: 5h 30mins (est)
Drones used: 23
Customers satisfied: 1
- Ask customer first how far he/she is from entry point, this to avoid potential (huge) wear and tear cost.
- Thank you Alex Brentnall for your foresight (Hutton Orbital reference)
- Calming and soothing words really help to calm a panicking customer. A professional approach is to be recommended for all fuel rats.
- There is no such thing as too many limpets.
Neospike got stranded 2800ly from the bubble, and was down to nearly no air. Worse of all, he had a broken fuel scoop! (huge damage from a stellar encounter) Domaq managed to get him fuel in an epic run and saved his life. Then a handful of other rats made a bucket brigade of limpets – over 500 – and he got back to civilization in safety.
My role in all this was very minor. I got in MV Longshot and jumped out 2000ly or so and refuelled Neospike once. Then he had to log off for the evening, and the rescue was completed by other rats the next day. So I went a really long way to deliver one top-up.
- CMDR Rusticulous
EDShipyard has the 1.3 features. Looks like a 1D controller is optimal for exploration (low mass) as speed of transfer and range would not be critical - this will transfer 1 tonne of fuel at a max range of 0.8km. I think the limpets take up cargo space but you only need to get the stranded CMDR to the nearest scoopable. Which means that you need to know how far they need to travel and what sort of ship they are in to work out how much fuel they need. Get that wrong and you could end up with two CMDRs stranded without enough fuel to get to the nearest scoopable
A quick build to test the weight of kit: http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=70g,,2...fa05UmpU2jw2UI
EDIT: BTW, limpets are one time use - they go bang in a satisfying way
- Forum Name: Gimi
Anyone know if you can actually scoop to fill the additional auxiliary tanks.
If that is the case, you could build an asp with an 8t auxiliary tank, stock up on drones and if you have to, make additional runs to nearest scoopable star if more than 8 tons are needed.
It would also allow you to run out with an empty fuel tank for extended range.
Can't test this right now....
- CMDR Surly Badger
Anuranium, that's great stuff. I like your role-play and the theme music was well-chosen!!!
So, have I got this right, the procedure is:
1) Friend the Fuel Rat/Recipient
2) Wing up
3) Fuel Rat gets in system
4) Recipient drops beacon and powers up systems (fuel scoop, shields)
5) Fuel Rat goes to beacon (I enjoyed the ultra-close flyby)
6) Fuel Rat targets recipient and launches drones
Looks like he transferred 8 or so... That's how many I will carry from now on. Are we agreed that's a good number?
It doesn't look likely that any given Rat will be doing multiple rescues in sequence, so a rescue-and-reload approach means not needing to haul a large number of probes.
- CMDR Surly Badger
We need a poster version like a railway warning:
IN CASE OF FUEL SHORTAGE
- Remain with your vehicle
- Stay calm
- Reduce your breathing and food consumption
- Call the Fuel Rats
- Praying is optional
- The penalty for loitering is death
- CMDR Murishani
- CMDR Alec Turner
You know what? Like any half decent volunteer force, we need training! Once 1.3 launches we should have a rota of people willing to go somewhere and deliberately strand themselves so they can be rescued.
@ 8:01 am- CMDR Anuranium
Day 2 with this feature and I believe it's high time for:
*EXCERCISE EXCERSICE EXCERCISE*
Help! I don't have fuel! I was chasing the annoying dancing dot around and suddenly my main fuel tank is empty, and I can't jump anywhere! Please dear Fuel Rats, I beg you, I don't want to die out here, I have a family and a goldfish back home, and I want to see them again.
Ship: Diamondback Explorer
Ship name: Dwarfchaser
Please help me as soon as possible!
*EXCERCISE EXCERSICE EXCERCISE*
Clock has been started and is ticking.
@ 8:38 am- CMDR Iron Orchid
I'm in Amadioha with some fuel.
@8:47 am- Forum Name Gimi
Is this still ongoing. I'm 55 ly away in Shinrarta with an equiped ASP. Never tried this and would like to.
Edit: I jumped so I'm in Amadioha now.
@9:05 am- CMDR Iron Orchid
I've just dropped off fuel it works and was fun. I only had 8 drones and I didn't really need an aux tank (but did have one installed). takes a few seconds for each drone and it's a bit unnerving when the drone expires with a bang.
- CMDR Anuranium
Result of "Excercise Fuel Rat"
First long distance distress hail: CMDR Rusticolus - 13 mins
First Fuel Rat in system CMDR Iron Orchid - 38 mins
Fuel transfer complete - 44 mins
1. When first recieved a call of distress, please notify your fellow Fuel Rats in this thread your intent to give support. That way other Fuel Rats can either go about their business or turn it into a race
2. Send the person in distress a friend request as soon as possible. This is needed for you to form a wing in order for him/her to turn on the wing beacon so you actually can find him/her. Also there is a great mental boost in actually seeing on the map that help is underway.
3. Unless you are in a small ship ie. sidewinder, or have an exceptionally small fuel tank, there is no need for large extra fuel tanks, as there is usually very little fuel required to get to the nearest scoopable star/station.*
4. Unless the person in distress is in a conflict zone or is being attacked by Thargoids there is no need to have more than a class 1 fuel controller. Time is only of the essence when going to the ship in need. The only real limitation here is the amount of limpets you bring.
*There may be situations on the fringe of our galaxy or in the unholy sea of Aucocks that require special customised fuel tankers or "daisy chaining" of Fuel Rats. In these cases consult your fellow Fuel Rats in this thread.
EXERCISE FUEL RAT
This concludes Exercise Fuel Rat
I don't know if this has been mentioned before on these here forums But I looked for an in-game "Fuel Rats" faction as there are "HIP xxxx Rats" ones, and found that if you look for a system called "Fuel" you'll find one called "FUELUM". It has a "FUELUM CREW" faction, which is kind of nice. I personally use it as a nest.
Do the systems you scouted have Anacondas ? That's what I'm vying for as a rat ship after my Asp.
Also, for Diamondback I don't think you can top Wolf 406 and it's forever 20% discount.
BTW congratulations on your rescues !